The House met at eleven of the clock,
MR. CHAIRMAN in the Chair.
_____
Q. No. 341
MR. CHAIRMAN: Question No. 341. ...(Interruptions).
SHRI RAVULA CHANDRA SEKAR REDDY: Sir, I had given a notice of urgent nature.
(Q.NO. 342 - hon. Members absent)
Q.NO. 343
SHRI SILVIUS CONDPAN: Sir, I have seen the answer of the hon. Minister given in two parts. In part (a) of his reply, the hon. Minister says that the project is financially non-viable. Again, the hon. Minister is replying that it is being considered by the Planning Commission to make it a national project. And, in part (b), the answer is that the construction of the bridge will be completed by 2010.
Now, Sir, to me, both these answers appear contradictory. There is no answer at all to my question. I would like to know whether the hon. Minister would clearly state that the Bogibeel rail-cum-road bridge construction project will be taken up seriously by the Government. Sir, I am saying this because, here, the interest of the North-East people is involved. It is also important because it is the border area of the country. I want the hon. Minister to say very categorically whether the Bogibeel rail-cum-road bridge construction project will be taken up seriously.
SHRI R. VELU: Sir, this project was sanctioned way back in 1997-98. The cost of the project was Rs. 972 crores. Though it was provided a budget of Rs. 1000 crores, the Cabinet, subsequently, approved Rs. 972 crores for it. The RITES had taken up the preliminary survey as well as the seismic survey, etc., etc., and arrived at a cost of Rs. 1767 crores. This being a mega project, it was proposed to the World Bank for financing it as a national project. (Contd. by 1e/SKC)
1e/11.20/skc-mcm
SHRI R. VELU (CONTD.): The World Bank said, after having considered that the ROR is -15.35, that it cannot be a rail project, and that it can only be a socio-economic project. Accordingly, the World Bank directed that this could be proposed to the Government of India. When the
Q. No.343 - (contd.)
Government of India was approached, the Cabinet Committee on Economic Affairs said, "You form a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV), and find the resources and implement the project through the SPV". Now, the reason why the SPV could not be formed was that it was unviable. Any project with less than 14 per cent of ROR is unviable. That is why there is a problem in creating an SPV and implementing it. Thereafter, we have now again moved a Cabinet note saying that this can be taken up again and reconsidered as a National Project.
Sir, this project, as he has mentioned, is a vital project. Firstly, it connects the north with the south of Assam. It also saves more than 200 kilometres of rail route. Thirdly, it is also a strategic route from defence point of view.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, be brief.
SHRI R. VELU: That is why I quite agree with the hon. Member that this has to be taken up seriously. We need to find resources for that and do it.
SHRI DWIJENDRA NATH SHARMAH: Sir, the hon. Minister has given a reply that, though this project was started in 2002, actually, in the field, nothing has happened till now. Half of the targeted time, that is, 2010-11 has already passed. May I know from the hon. Minister how much work has been completed till now?
Secondly, they are saying that the project is financially non-viable only now, at this stage. (Interruptions) In his reply to the question of my hon. colleague, the hon. Minister has already said that from the strategic point, from the defence point of view also, this bridge is very important, being the border area. So, may I know from the hon. Minister how much
Q. No.343 - (contd.)
work has been completed till now and how much money has been released till now as half of the time is already over?
SHRI R. VELU: Sir, we have already spent Rs. 580 crores and works relating to boulder collection, approach roads and all the preliminary work for floating tenders are in progress. In fact, for substructure, the tenders has been floated. Subject to the availability of resources, we have already promised to complete it by 2010-11.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Uday Pratap Singh.
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SHRI ROBERT KHARSHIING: Mr. Chairman Sir, while I compliment the hon. Minister of Railways, Shri Lalu Prasad Yadav, for recently paying a visit to the New Delhi Railway Station to check the facilities and amenities, I would like to know from the Minister of Railways whether he would like to follow the examples of the Minister of Telecom and the Minister of Civil Aviation in regularly calling meetings with the MPs from the North-East to discuss the facilities and amenities available at railway stations and platforms.
SHRI R. VELU: Sir, usually, the General Manager of the concerned Railway Division calls for meetings with MPs and MLAs.
SHRI ROBERT KHARSHIING: He has never called for it so far...(Interruptions)...
SHRI R. VELU: I would ask the General Manager to call for a meeting immediately. (Interruptions)
SHRI DWIJENDRA NATH SHARMAH: He is not always cooperative. There are a lot of problems in the North-East...(interruptions)...
Q. No.343 - (contd.)
SHRI R. VELU: I shall ask him to call for a meeting within a month. (Interruptions)
SHRI DWIJENDRA NATH SHARMAH: Sir, there are a lot of problems in the North-East. Those officers do not listen to the MPs. (Interruptions)
SHRI R. VELU: If the hon. Members want to meet the Minister of Railways, Shri Lalu Prasad Yadavji, It is all right. If he is not available, they are welcome to meet me on next Monday. (Interruptions)
SHRI ROBERT KHARSHIING: You must convene a meeting, Sir. (Interruptions)
SHRI KARNENDU BHATTACHARJEE: Every time it is not ...(interruptions)...
SHRI ROBERT KHARSHIING: We would like to have a meeting with you... (interruptions)... Sir, you must convene the meeting.
SHRI R. VELU: If you don't permit ..(Interruptions)...how will I do...(Interruptions)... (Followed by 1f)
SK-GS/1F/11.25
SHRI DWIJENDRA NATH SHARMAH: Sir, till now, Railways is not in a position to run an electric train in Assam and the North Eastern Region. Your officers do not cooperate with the Members of Parliament and you are saying that you talk to NF Railways General Manager. ...(Interruptions)..
Q. No.343 - (contd.)
SHRI R. VELU: Sir, I will definitely ...(Interruptions) ..
SHRI R. VELU: Sir, I assure the hon. Chairman that within one month, I will call a meeting for the North Eastern Region.
(Ends)
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* Not recorded.
Q. No. 344
SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Sir, the micro, small and medium enterprises have envisaged mainly two actions. ...(Interruptions).. One, differential lending and two, the differential procurement of small-scale industries products by Government Departments and public sector companies in particular. My question is, in the package declared for SMEs and rules framed under the Act, what concrete measures have been taken in that direction. Whether concrete instructions have been issued to banks, Government Departments and PSUs in that direction.
SHRI PRASANTA CHATTERJEE: Sir, I remember that in reply to a Starred Question given in Rajya Sabha a few days back, the hon. Minister has said that as per RBI guidelines of 2002, small-scale and medium-scale sectors are being given credit. Then, after 2002, in 2006, the SME Act had been passed. Even though there was a provisoin of preferential credit to SMEs under the RBI guidelines of 2002, the credit flow to SMEs has failed to improve. Is the Government serious on that account?
¯
DR. P.C. ALEXANDER: Sir, when the programme for development of small-scale industries was started in the mid 50's, there was one board for small-scale industries. The idea was that there should be a board devoted to the problems of small-scale industries covered by one definition. But, today, the proposal seems to be to club together micro industries, small-scale industries, and medium industries, each group having capital investment ranging from Rs. 5 lakh to Rs. 20 crore. My question to the hon. Minister is whether he thinks that one board covering industries having capital investment ranging from Rs.5 lakh to Rs.20 lakh can really do justice to the problems of the small-scale industries in this country. Or whether he will consider, in view of the importance of stimulation of entrepreneurship in the small-scale sector, to go back to the old practice which yielded considerable results in the country's industrial development and have a separate board for small-scale industries covered by the definition strictly for small-scale industries.
(Q.No.345 -- Hon. Member absent)
Q. No.346
MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to know from the Minister: Has the National Rural Health Mission any specific component to address area-specific diseases like malaria, filaria and sicklecell which are largely found in Orissa? In Orissa, child mortality rate is very high in comparison to the national average. This is due to malnutrition of the mother and the child and lack of maternal health care. Does any specific scheme exist under the NRHM for Orissa?
DR. ANBUMANI RAMDOSS: Sir, the National Rural Health Mission is one of the flagship programmes of the UPA Government. This programme was launched in April last year and it's been one year since we are trying to implement the programme. This is a seven-year old programme. This is a holistic component of not only health, but nutrition, sanitation, drinking water and health. And in health, some of the main goals of the programme are, to reduce infant mortality rate, reduce maternal mortality rate, reduce the total mortality rate and, of course, prevent the diseases. As the hon. Member asked, almost all the disease control programme come under NRHM and at the district level, we have these district health missions and district health societies formed and we have converged almost all the health societies earlier which were in the district for individual programmes like, for example, there was a society for TB programme, there was one for leprosy programme and there was one for iodine-deficiency programme. All these programmes have been clubbed as one district health society and through this society, now, we are diverging at the district level so that it will be more effective in monitoring our programmes. Definitely, Sir, the State of Orissa comes under the NRHM. In fact, the National Rural Health Mission covers the entire country, but it focuses on 18 States
Q. No.346 (contd.)
and Orissa is one of the major States which we are trying to focus on because of the parameters on the health sector there, which is little disheartening.
In my answer itself, Sir, we have mentioned 'ASHA', the Accredited Social Health Activist. It's a health worker. Through these health workers, in almost all the villages, including the villages of Orissa, we are trying to have a lot of infusion into the system. One, we are trying to upgrade the infrastructure, the health infrastructure. Almost all the sub centres, primary health centres, community health centres and, of course, the district headquarters hospitals are being upgraded. Sir, I could call this NRHM as one of the biggest programmes in the last fifty years and through this programme, definitely, not only Orissa, but almost all the States of the country are being covered. (Contd. by TMV/1j)
-VKK-TMV-AKG/1J/11.40
MS. PRAMILA BOHIDAR: Sir, my second supplementary is that the population of Tribals and the Scheduled Castes in Orissa is very high. They live in extremism-affected areas. Has NRHM got specific schemes for these areas?
DR. ANBUMANI RAMDOSS: Yes, Sir. I have already mentioned that we are definitely focussing more on these tribal areas and poor villages, and this National Rural Health Mission covers mostly these areas. In every village, in every tribal village or poor village, and, in fact, in almost all the villages, a health worker called "ASHA" is there. In fact, in Orissa, about 30,000 ASHAs are envisaged, but till today 12,000 ASHAs are put in place and they are trained. These ASHAs are health workers, and they have to live in the village and have a minimum eligibility criteria. They have been trained and oriented for immunisation and institutional
Q. No.346 (contd.)
deliveries. These are their main functions so that it reduces the infant mortality and the maternal mortality. Schemes like Janani Swaraksha Yojana and RCH (Reproductive Child Health) programme are there. These are the two major programmes which we have put in the NRHM and through this, I assure the House, maybe, in the next three years, a lot of parameters like IMR, MMR, TFR, etc., in the villages will be reduced.
DR. ANBUMANI RAMDOSS: Sir, firstly, this is called a Mission because we are taking this programme in a mission mode. It is not just another programme and for this programme we have a 7-year period--two years in the Tenth Plan and five years in the Eleventh Plan. By 2012, we tend to have our National Health Policy targets for infant mortality, maternal mortality, etc., achieved. That is why it is called a Mission programme, the National Rural Health Mission, and is in a mission mode.
Secondly, the hon. Member asked about the Anganwadi Workers. This comes under the HRD Ministry, even though the Health Ministry is coordinating with it. The ASHA, Anganwadi Workers and ANM are a team working in a village in the sub-centre. In fact, we have some of the schemes in the National Rural Health Mission. The Anganwadi Workers will also be benefited through these schemes because this is a combination of a team work. In fact, Self-Help Groups, the Panchayat representatives, etc., are all part of the team in a village. Every village in the country will have a Health and Sanitation Committee where ANM, Anganwadi Workers, ASHA, Panchayat Raj village headman,
Q. No.346 (contd.)
representatives of the Self-Help Groups, etc., are there. They are going to be part of the scheme. (Contd. by VK/1K)
VK/1K/11.45
DR. ANBUMANI RAMDOSS (CONTD): Every year we are giving Rs. 10,000 as contingency plan for each Village Health and Sanitation Committee so that they can plan their own programmes and priorities.
SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: What is the payment made to ASHAs?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Prof. P.J. Kurien. (Interruptions).
SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, it is a very relevant question.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. I am not allowing. Prof. P.J. Kurien. ... (Interruptions) ... I am not allowing it. Please sit down.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN: Sir, the NRHM is one of the very useful and effective programmes of the Government of India. The hon. Minister has just now said that the focus is on 18 States, depending on the health parameters, which has been arrived at after a scientific study. That is correct and it should be like that. But, Sir, when you look at the whole project, you can see one important thing that those States which have done very well in the matter of health care by implementing the programmes efficiently, those States happen to be the sufferers and they are being penalised. For example, States like Tamil Nadu, which is hon. Minister's State, and Kerala, have done very well in the matter of health care. Their health indicators and health parameters are showing better results. There is no focus on them and even the funds have also been reduced. They are being penalised. So this principle of penalising the States which are doing better, is it in the larger interest of the nation? That is what I want to know. Sir, I don't grudge that more help is being
Q. No.346 (contd.)
given to those States which are backward. But this very principle has to be looked into.
DR. ANBUMANI RAMDOSS: Sir, there is no principle of penalising any State. The NRHM covers the entire country. But we are only focussing on these 18 States, which are Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Orissa, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Uttaranchal, North Eastern States, Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir. We are focussing on these States more because we are taking the bottom 18 States in the health parameters like the IMR, MMR, TFR and others. That is why we have categorised it. The entire country is being covered. The hon. Member has said that these States are being penalised. I have not got any complaint from the respective Health Ministers of Tamil Nadu and Kerala. They are very cooperative. All the Health Ministers are very cooperative, so far as this programme is concerned.
Coming to the question which Shrimati Brinda Karat has raised about component of salary for ASHAs. The Accredited Social Health Activist has to be a woman. She has to live in a village. Minimum qualification for ASHA is 8th Standard. In some Tribal areas, where there are no facilities, we have lowered the criteria a little bit. The Government has envisaged that by next year we will be enlisting 2,50,000 ASHAs in 2,50,000 villages. Till today, 2,60,000 to 2,70,000 ASHAs are being put in place. In the answer, the figure given is 2,38,000. But in actuality, last night when I went through it, I found that 2,60,000 are being put in place. The criterion is, we train ASHAs for a period of 28 days. They are given complete training. ASHAs are not paid salary as such. They get paid for the work they do. For immunisation, if ASHA takes a child to the nearest Sub-Centre, she will
Q. No.346 (contd.)
be paid money. If she takes a woman for antenatal check up, she will be paid money. If she takes a woman for delivery, she will be paid money. If she takes women for post natal check up, she will be paid money. If ASHA induces women in a village to build a household latrine through the HRD Ministry's fund, she will be paid money. ASHA is being compensated enough. She is paid according to the work she does. There is no criterion as to how much she will be paid. The more work she does, the more money she is going to be paid. (Ends)
(Followed by 1L)
RG/PSV/11.50/1L
Q.No.347
SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Sir, the thrust of the question is about forest credit. Unfortunately the hon. Minister has given a negative answer saying, "No mechanism for providing 'Forest Credit' to the forest areas/cover is available in the country." Sir, the Government can achieve twin objectives by providing forest credit to the tribals and the communities living in the forest areas. By giving this credit, they can create job opportunities and they can arrest the depletion of forest areas. Unfortunately, the Minister's reply shows that the Government has not applied their mind even though the Rashtrapatiji of the nation has expressed concern on this. So, I would like to know as to why the Government is not extending Forest Credit to them.
SHRI NAMO NARAIN MEENA: Sir, as I have said in my reply, there is no mechanism for providing Forest Credit in this country. However, Carbon Credit is there, as per the Kyoto Protocol. There are three flexible innovative mechanisms; one is CDM; the Annexe 1 parties meet the developed countries to invest in GHG mitigation projects in developing countries. As per the Credit Emission Reduction, the scale is that 1 CER is equaivalent to one tonne of carbondioxide, and in a layman's language, this is called Carbon Credit. There are various sectors in which the CDMs are available, say, renewable energy, energy efficiency, etc. Also, these CDMs are available in both afforestation and reforestation. We are the first country in the world for giving host country approval in CDMs in this country. So far we have given two host approvals in A & R sector.
Q.No.347 - (Contd.)
SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: Sir, the hon. Minister is not aware of the fact that credit from banking institutions and other institutions are not going to the forest areas. When I was the Minister, even for preparing baskets from the roots of the plants in the forest areas, the banks were not giving them credit. Then, I went personally to all these hilly areas and saw to it that the credit facility was given. What is happening today is that under the DRI scheme for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, particularly, living in the rural areas, the bank has to give one per cent of the total credit to them. But that is not happening in practice. I would like to know whether the Minister of Environment and Forests, in order to give assistance to the tribal people as well as other communities living in these areas, is coordinating with the Finance Ministry to find out why they have not implemented it. Even one per cent has not been given to them. This is the state of affairs today. I would like to know whether the Government is aware of this fact.
SHRI AMAR SINGH: Sir, this is a serious matter, and I am associating myself with it.
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SHRI A. RAJA: Sir, the concept of 'Carbon Credit', which has been equated with 'Forest Credit' by the hon. Member, arose on the basic concept that defaulters should be fined. So far as Carbon Credit is concerned, whoever be the person or the project proponent wishing to instal a very big industry, out of which the carbon emissions will be more, as per the Kyoto Protocol, as mentioned by my colleague, this pollution load can be converted into Carbon Credit Cards (CCRs), and these can be purchased by the developed countries, where these
Q.No.347 - (Contd.)
developed countries were not able to reduce their emission. In other words, developed countries are having more and more emissions; those who are not able to reduce their own technology are compensating the developing countries like India, where we are getting the new technology by setting up these industries. (Continued by 1M)
1m/11.55/sch-ks
SHRI A. RAJA (CONTD.): So, this is the concept behind the carbon credit. The basic concept of carbon credit is that a defaulter must be fined, or, the aggrieved person must be compensated in terms of money or in terms of technical assistance. It cannot be equated with the forest credit. What does it mean? Then, we are diverting the forest land; and those who are living in the forest area, maybe tribal people or the local forest dwellers, may be shifted. The Government takes the responsibility to relocate them and to compensate them by giving the special package. Earlier, Shrimati Brinda Karat asked a very legitimate question: how many private people are getting the forestland and she also said that diversions were taking place. Yes, it is true that diversions are taking place through the Forest Conservation Act, which is not a prohibitary law; it is a regulatory law. This country needs developmental activity, for which we have to give up our forestland. But that does not mean that we have to give up the entire forestland. We have a system in terms of the NPV, which is the Net Profit Value. We fix the NPV. When we give forestland to an individual, that value must be collected. Apart from that, there is a system of CAMPA. CAMPA means that some funds are to be collected. When we give two acres of land to an individual for putting up an industry, then, we collect four acres of land...
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let me ask the hon. Member. Are you satisfied?
Q.No.347 - (Contd.)
SHRI JANARDHANA POOJARY: No, Sir, because he has not given the answer. Forget about the carbon credit, no credit is given to the people. I want to know whether the target is being achieved. (Interruptions)
SHRI A. RAJA: Sir, the forest credit is being collected in some other mode... (Interruptions)
SHRI PENUMALLI MADHU: Sir, the Forest Ministry is eating away the land. It is responsible for the loss of forests. (Interruptions)
SHRI A. RAJA: Sir, with your permission, I want to share something. The Forest Conservation Act came into force in the year 1980. Before 1980, without any regulation, without any rational application of mind, whichever Government was there, used to give 25000 hectares of forestland per year. Now, it is not so. After 1980, so far, we have given, including the Government departments, only 11 lakh hectares.
SHRIMATI BRINDA KARAT: Sir, in five years, it is 7.5 lakh hectares.
Question Hour is over.
