'Muslims are part of the mainstream of society'- Devils Advocate

Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to Devil’s Advocate. There is no doubt that my guest today is the brightest star on the Bollywood firmament. But critics ask, “is he really an actor” and others want to know “what are the causes that he is passionate about?” Those are the two big issues that I shall raise today with Shah Rukh Khan.

Shah Rukh, let me start with the question that many people ask. Are you an actor or are you a star?

Shah Rukh Khan: I don’t know myself. I am just like the people who ask that and I have no idea what I do. I have a very simple logic for what I do. It’s a job. I go out and I try to entertain as many people as possible. If there is an intelligent person doing an interview, then I try to give the spill about acting. If there is a flippant journalist, like there are many nowadays, I would tell you I am a star and I behave like a star. But as far as my work is concerned, I am immensely dedicated. I think a lot about what I say and I have been doing it for 16 years.

Karan Thapar: You think about what you say or what you do?
Shah Rukh Khan: I think about what I say, what I do and also about dialogues and how to enact physically.

Karan Thapar: People say that actors become the characters they play. They talk about people like Dustin Hoffman or Anthony Hopkins. Stars convert the characters they play into themselves. Do you convert each character into Shah Rukh?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes.

Karan Thapar: So, you are a star?
Shah Rukh Khan: Unfortunately, yes. I don’t like to deride the greatness of Dustin Hoffman, Anthony Hopkins or some other great actors. If you really do see their films, not lately, even for the last five-ten years, I think there is a whole set of performance, that is Dustin Hoffman, that is Anthony Hopkins and then the character. But that’s no justification for me being the way I am.

Karan Thapar: So in other words, what I am accusing you of is something that they do themselves as well? In other words, they stab themselves on the role.
Shah Rukh Khan: Everyone. But let me also tell you, I think this whole thought is a little old that the actor immerses himself into the character and forgets himself. There would be some really great actors in India who would say, “No, this guy is saying it because he can’t do it.” But I don’t think so. I think entertainment has reached a level where you can’t disassociate it from the star-ness of it all. The star has to be a star and try and act well also.

Karan Thapar: What about the fact that people say when they look at films likeDilwale Dulhaniya, Baazigar, Devdas and Kal Ho Na Ho. What they remember is not the personality of the role that Shah Rukh played, but Shah Rukh’s personality itself. In a sense, Shah Rukh dominates the movie to the detriment of the character that he is trying to be.
Shah Rukh Khan: I don’t know who are these people, who are these people who know the characters better than I do. I find it very strange that there are people who understand the characters.

Karan Thapar: Does the actor always know the character better then the audience?
Shah Rukh Khan: Hundred per cent, yes!

Karan Thapar: In which case, isn’t the actor putting himself before the character?
Shah Rukh Khan: The actor would put himself before the character and there is no denying it. You can’t take away from it.

Karan Thapar: But should he put himself before the character?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes. I think so. I would agree. I do that and I don’t deny that.

Karan Thapar: Let me quote to you what The Hindu newspaper said of you. They said, “He has allowed himself to be typecast and he has become a victim of his own mannerisms. Shah Rukh’s performances have become predictable.”
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes, I am sure they are right. See, it’s a viewpoint and if people think that somewhere down the line my performance is predictable, it must be so. You can’t be so different after 16 years. I have even tried to wear a moustache and be different, but it doesn’t work. I am Shah Rukh Khan and I stay that way always.

Karan Thapar: Let me tell you another example. They say that even Shah Rukh’s ads, in a sense, are dominated by Shah Rukh. The example they quote is your ads vs say Aamir Khan’s. In an Aamir Khan ad, the storyline is what the audience remembers and takes away whereas in a Shah Rukh ad, it is Shah Rukh’s personality or his antics.
Shah Rukh Khan: I can’t deny that. I just have a very strong personality, I guess. Or I just don’t know how to act. It could be either of the two things.

Karan Thapar: Or you don’t know how to hide your personality?
Shah Rukh Khan: I don’t know. I am not a good enough actor.

Karan Thapar: Do you do it deliberately? Is it in fact your way of creating a Shah Rukh persona that is so memorable that people never forget it?
Shah Rukh Khan: I have not done any of these deliberately. I can say it and sound very nice, saying, “Yes, I do it. I knew that I would create a brand called Shah Rukh Khan and I am using that franchise and this is a calculated move.” But I would like to be humble and say, “I think I just don’t know how to hide my personality.” I don’t think I am a good enough actor.

Karan Thapar: That’s humility, not to know how to hide your personality?
Shah Rukh Khan: I think as an actor I can’t immerse myself, I am not good enough to do a character.

Karan Thapar: Let me point out something. Your fans say that ‘his screen image, his performance is full of energy and vitality’. Your critics say ‘he is humming it and he is overacting’.
Shah Rukh Khan: You have to listen to critics. Every Friday when a film releases, I am bothered what they say and I read what they say. But then critics also say whatever they feel like. They don’t know much about acting.

Karan Thapar: So you read it and you throw it away and you forget about it?
Shah Rukh Khan: I forget about it. I read the reviews on Saturday and on Monday morning, I am Shah Rukh Khan all over again.

Karan Thapar: The interesting thing is when you say you are Shah Rukh Khan all over again. I remember reading somewhere, where they said that behind the larger-than-life screen image, behind the energy and the vitality, is actually a man who is a loner, who is often insecure and who frequently needs reassurance and reconfirmation of himself.
Shah Rukh Khan: I don’t know why are these people snooping into my house and my mind. When you have been doing films for 16 years and have been in everybody’s face for a long time, there are lot of romanticising about what I could be like. I am like none of those.

Karan Thapar: So you are not a loner and you are not insecure?
Shah Rukh Khan: Everybody is a part loner. Everybody is a bit insecure about a lot of things. I am insecure about my family. I want my son do well. I want my daughter to do well.

Karan Thapar: You once said in an interview that acting is a way of escaping from being Shah Rukh.
Shah Rukh Khan: But it’s not working. I am Shah Rukh all over again every day, people are saying. So I guess I have to find some other way – maybe playstation. But you know, everybody is a bit of a loner and even I am one in my own time. Because I am a public figure. I meet too many people in one day and there are days when I just feel like sitting in my hotel room and being with myself. So I could be a bit of a loner.

Karan Thapar: Does the world actually know the real Shah Rukh or is it just the image that you put on and the image keeps changing depending on the mood you have at that moment?
Shah Rukh Khan: If I was to take critics, then everybody knows the real Shah Rukh. Because that’s what I play every time. But if I was to truly believe myself in what I do and have been doing for so many years, I think very few people know the real Shah Rukh.

Karan Thapar: So then how would you describe the real Shah Rukh?
Shah Rukh Khan: It would take longer than 22 minutes. It shall be a long description. But the fact is that there is nothing special about Shah Rukh and it is difficult to explain how ordinary I am.

Karan Thapar: Is that honesty or is that supposed modesty?
Shah Rukh Khan:That is honesty.

Karan Thapar: You generally say that you are a very ordinary person?
Shah Rukh Khan:Yes, I am a very ordinary person in an extraordinary profession.

Karan Thapar: In other words, the acting is an attempt to start and become extraordinary. You are escaping from your ordinariness by becoming an actor.
Shah Rukh Khan: Like a lot of us, I am not happy with just being an ordinary guy. I do need that 15 minutes of fame and I do need to make a life of what I have. And yes, the job that I do – I am feeling scared to call it acting now -- is a step towards wanting to be extraordinary.

Karan Thapar: Let me ask you a blunt question. Which of the two would you prefer; to be admired and respected or to be popular and liked?
Shah Rukh Khan: To be popular and liked.

Karan Thapar: So recognition is very important for you?
Shah Rukh Khan:Yes. It is the most important thing. I love being a star. I don’t even wear dark glasses to hide the fact.

Karan Thapar: How important is it when your car stops at a red light and people outside recognise you? Is it important for you that the guy on the road should smile and say hi?
Shah Rukh Khan: Oh, I would die if people didn’t smile when they saw me on the road. It is the greatest moment of my everyday life. Like say when I was driving down here, the people who stopped me – the security guards -- they checked my car, looked at me and smilingly said, “Hey! Shah Rukh Khan.” I think that is the greatest gift that I have.

Karan Thapar: So, when you go abroad and you are suddenly in the company of people who don’t know about Indian films, who don’t know Shah Rukh, who don’t know the legend and they come up to you and stare at you. And God forbid if someone at a hotel should say, “excuse me sir, who you?” What you do?
Shah Rukh Khan: I think it would happen only in Alaska. Everyone else recognises me. It has never happened to me.

Karan Thapar: You mean there is no city in the world where Shah Rukh can be anonymous and unrecognised?
Shah Rukh Khan:There could be a couple of cities, but I haven’t been there yet. But once I go there, I am sure that they too will start recognising me.

Karan Thapar: You make a point of it?
Shah Rukh Khan: I will make it a point and I make sure that Indian films are recognised so they recognise me.

Karan Thapar: You are today, of course, number one. But one day when you are not, and dare I say when you become wrinkled and pot-bellied, would you be able to cope with old age?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, I think there is a lot of scope for a wrinkled old man. I am sure I would be able to carry on a little longer. I like to believe I am an actor. I am not being liked because of my dimples and ‘non-wrinkles.’ Hopefully, I will still continue to be Shah Rukh Khan and people will not see through. The critics can keep saying what they say. I will still keep working. Till I feel like, I think, I will keep working.

Karan Thapar: Do you have a plan in mind how you are going to handle wrinkles and pot belly?
Shah Rukh Khan: I can apply Emami handsome cream! I don’t have a plan. I have never had a plan. My plan is to just get up and act. There will be a day when there will be more people who don’t want to see me on screen. I will take it when it comes. It’s a sad thought, a scary thought.

Karan Thapar: But it is a day you are hoping is still far off .
Shah Rukh Khan: Very very far off. See, I came to the film industry to work for only five years, but it has been 15 years. I think that I am sort of booked for the next three-four years, so 20 years seem safe. And let’s see what happens after that.

Karan Thapar: Shah Rukh, should actors stand up and be identified with the causes that they champion, the issues that they believe in? Should they use their popularity to promote them or should an actor primarily be recognised for his acting talent and his on-screen performance?
Shah Rukh Khan: I think that you cannot constrict it to just an actor. I think just as a person, if he happens to be an actor and if he feels for a cause, he should go ahead and do it. Not because he is just an actor and he feels that he should do a cause. For example, Angelina Jolie feels for something, I assume, personally and she happens to be an actor and that cause gets a little talked about. She believes in it, so she is doing it. But just because you are an actor, I think anyone should get into a cause because somebody else tells you or you feel I don’t have any causes to stand up for so let me stand up for one.

Karan Thapar: Do you have causes that you believe in? Are they things that you are passionate about, that you would like to be identified with and that you would like to lend your colours to?
Shah Rukh Khan: Not really. I don’t have big agendas. I have very simple agendas, which are a little Islamic in their thought, where I do believe I should help people. And I like to do it without making it a cause.

Karan Thapar: You give a lot to charity, don’t you?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes, I do. But I don’t like talking about it. A lot of people and my friends always tell me I should do photographs and stuff when I meet some people. But I don’t believe in it. It is a true thing that if I believe in a cause, I should do it silently and not use my persona as an actor to advocate that.

Karan Thapar: You mentioned that there are several causes that you described as Islamic, which you believe in and you don’t want to talk about them. You are clearly one of the most successful Muslims in the country and undoubtedly, perhaps, the most popular. Do you feel a certain sense of moral commitment or responsibility for the Muslims of the country?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, I think the moral commitment or responsibility I have towards the Muslims is just to clarify the fact that Muslims are as secular as anyone else in the world. As a Muslim, I stand for that and I speak for that. I speak for Islam and I am very Islamic by nature. What I believe is the openness of Islam, and that is what Islam actually stands for. It should not be misled.

Karan Thapar: Is Islam today -- because of 9/11 and because of the association in many people’s eyes, wrongly no doubt, with terrorism -- misunderstood?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes, I think it is misrepresented and misunderstood by many. I truly believe that I know a lot of Islam in a modern sense and I teach that to my children. But the best part about it is the openness and the secularity that is attached to it. It is misunderstood and sometimes, I think, is misused to make an easy statement that obviously the terrorists must be Islamic. I think that’s wrong.

Karan Thapar: Let’s talk a little about Indian Muslims. Are they discriminated against? Do they face prejudice despite all the talk of Indian secularism that people are so proud of?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, I don’t think so. I read an article where they said if you discount Aamir, Salman and Shah Rukh, then the Muslims are prejudiced against and biased against in India. But I don’t think so. Even when I wasn’t a movie star, I don’t think my father or mother were discriminated against or they made me believe there was an issue that Muslims are treated badly. I think that Muslims are as part of India as anybody else is.

Karan Thapar: There is no doubt that Muslims are among the most poor, the least educated and the worst represented of communities of India. Is Indian politics being fair to them?
Shah Rukh Khan: I wouldn’t be able to do a lot of statistics, but I am sure as miserable, as poor and as wrongly portrayed Muslims are, I think that there would be enough Hindus also and enough Christians also.
I don’t think we should equate the two just because you are Muslim and you are poor, you are poor because you are Muslim. I think there is poverty in the country and you will find people of different religions being poor too. I think politically -- because politics is a broad band and there are a lot of issues attached to it. This could be one of the issues which not working right, like so many other issues also We can’t just say that politicians have been good to them or not, but I think the country has been very fair to the Islamic people.

Karan Thapar: Explain to me why is that Muslims have been so successful in the film world? They have achieved enormous success at all sorts of levels, not just actors but as directors, as scriptwriters, as singers and as musicians. But they haven’t made the same impact elsewhere.
Shah Rukh Khan: That’s not really true. Isn’t our President a Muslim? We like to think like that and be patronising. But I don’t think it’s not only films, but you will see all over the world, even in business you can take five-six names who have done very well as Muslims. In politics, Muslims have done well. In films, it just stands out a little more. I think that is because of a little bit of culture of Urdu and poems and how they have been brought up. I think that helps a little and it helps me a lot in terms of language and experience.

Karan Thapar: Today there are many people who say that perhaps what Muslims need is their own political party. For instance, the Shahi Imam has announced that he is going to create a Muslim front to contest the UP elections.
Shah Rukh Khan: Can I be honest. In this country, the last thing we need is another politically party -- Muslim, Chinese, French, English and Marathi whatever. We don’t need another sectarian political party that creates another sect. I don’t think Muslims need another party.

Karan Thapar: So you think the Muslims need to become more and more a part of the mainstream rather than try and find separate Muslim or Islamic avenues to success?
Shah Rukh Khan: We are part of the mainstream. Whether people agree or not, I truly believe that we are a part of the mainstream. If we keep on harping on about the fact that we need to form another sect or another party, we are actually dissociating ourselves from the mainstream of India.

Karan Thapar: So you completely disagree with the sort of approach that Shahi Imam is adopting that we need a Muslim party to represent Muslim viewpoints?
Shah Rukh Khan: I completely disagree that we need more political parties. The Shahi Imam, I am sure, has very clear-cut ideas, his ideologies and his set of thoughts and he must be right. He is an intelligent person and, yes, he is the Islamic leader in a certain sense. So, what he says must be completely true. As far as I am concerned, as just a normal Indian, I believe we don’t need more political parties. We need less of them.

Karan Thapar: Another issue that I want to bounce off you is this whole question of smoking and the depiction of smoking on films. As you know, this government has become very concerned about the way smoking scenes are shown, about the sorts of cautions and captions that should go with it whether it helps the film or whether it doesn’t. And there is a lot of concern in Bollywood in particular that this amounts to censorship, it amounts to invading the artistic sphere of filmmaking. What is your view on this?
Shah Rukh Khan: I won’t belittle it by saying that smoking is artistic in cinema and that’s why we are having this problem. But the whole larger issue is: today smoking and tomorrow what? Where does it go ahead with this? It is an art form, and should it be left alone. I think, I truly believe that the Indian masses are literate enough to know that there is no more Humphrey-Bogart kind of smoking. It’s no more that you will start smoking because an actor does. It is a very, very small health issue. I think that powers that be should look at bigger health issues then smoking in films.

Karan Thapar: Another issue that the Health Minister has specifically raised and in raising it, in fact, he took your name among others, is that people like you should not identify with an advertised soft drinks. He says soft drinks are bad. Children see you and start drinking it themselves. He appealed to you not to advertise soft drinks.
Shah Rukh Khan: I would appeal to any authority like that to ban it. Don’t let it sell in our country if it is bad for children. If smoking is bad, don’t allow production in this country.

Karan Thapar: And the corollary is that if you are not banning it, then don’t appeal to me not to advertise.
Shah Rukh Khan:My logic is you are not stopping it because it gives you a revenue. Let’s be honest about it. You are not stopping certain products if you think that they are harmful, but they earn revenue to the government. Then don’t stop my revenue, I am an actor. I am supposed to do a job and get revenue from it. Very clearly, if you think something is wrong, stop making it. There is no problem with that.

Karan Thapar: Do adults have the right to take a wrong decision, for instance, in terms of smoking or drinking soft drinks? It may be bad for you, but you have got a right to choose to do it. Do you believe that?
Shah Rukh Khan: I drink soft drinks and I smoke. So I can’t be hypocritical. I don’t think I am doing right maybe – the smoking part at least. But I am trying to reduce smoking.

Karan Thapar: But you believe that you have the right to do the wrong things as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else?
Shah Rukh Khan: Personally, yes. I don’t think anybody has the right to tell me what to do.

Karan Thapar: Roughly two years ago, and shortly after this government came into being, you were quoted by The Times Of India saying that Sonia Gandhi is your idol. Do you believe that or was that a misquote?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, that’s not a misquote. I think Sonia Gandhi is a wonderful lady and I say it quite apolitically.

Karan Thapar: Can you say such a thing apolitically?
Shah Rukh Khan: I can say it and it may not be taken apolitically.

Karan Thapar: Isn’t that the danger?
Shah Rukh Khan: My job is vulnerable and dangerous. I am an actor. You can misquote me and misrepresent me as you want, I am ok. But I would still stand by it.

Karan Thapar: You said it weeks after her government was formed. Did you say it because she had got into a position of power?
Shah Rukh Khan: No. Because before she got into power, nobody asked me.

Karan Thapar: She was an idol of yours 10 years before that?
Shah Rukh Khan: Yes, there is an image of hers that I would repeat again and again, I think one of the election rallies on a bus with her children, which is a very, very strong emotion to me. Because I am attached to the figure of a mother. I see it like a film guy and that’s why it is a little apolitical, I think. She is a strong lady and someone that you can admire a lot.

Karan Thapar: And the fact that many people who are BJP supporters and the Communist supporters might misunderstand you. Does that worry you?
Shah Rukh Khan: No, they don’t misunderstand me because I have respect for all of them, including Mr Vajpayee, Mr Advani and many more. I have met all of them and they have always been very kind and they do understand the fact that what I say is quite a personal take. I still go and meet them. I have association with them and they have been very kind to me. I am quite apolitical. I meet them for the people they are.

Karan Thapar: Shah Rukh Khan, a pleasure talking to you on Devil’s Advocate?
Shah Rukh Khan: Thank you very much.



Source : IBNLIVE
 
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