managers or enterpreneurs -what should be the objective of b-school???

[anu shukla]

hi there!
starting of a new thread with this debate..
actually saw that birla's wala program...also heard abt this never ending discussion at iims to change their curriculum!!
an article by an iims grad who said that "today the experience at class room is far apart from ground realities & the education is more of academia"


my views on the same:

focus shud be on managers:based on simple fact that nt many people have the wealth & like mind to start up new ventures...gone are the days of tata & ambani's, today people are more concerned abt getting quick money with less labour!!so being a manager will fetch you a handsome job!! also while in job u have the security as well as comforts!!!
also as more & more foreign investment, emphasis shud be on producing gud managers..instead of wasting time in making them learn the enterpreneurship skills as all doesn't possess that quality!!

enterpreneurs are the need of hour!!evn our president quoted the same!!also while learning the art,one learns how to deal with the ground realities..it gives you an edge to create your own empire , how to face the highs & lows of business /companies..
evn recent trend at iim placements where students rejected the offers ..shows teh same!!

these are my views..wat r urs???

[gaurav200x]

i'm a little confused here... what exactly are ur views? u have gone for both :SugarwareZ-064:

Anyway, i think that wealth creation is not a big deal.
focus shud be on managers:based on simple fact that nt many people have the wealth & like mind to start up new ventures...gone are the days of tata & ambani's

Correction my lady! Ambani started as a poor man!! He worked abroad for an oil company and amassed a little money and started out with his on venture later on... pretty much like NR murthy.

I would say that 'entrepreneurship' is the need of the hour. What will help India in progress is self-employment for it is the key

Agreed u have the option to do the slavery of these MNC big shots, but that aint going to do much for ur country. Think of it this way... India is suffering from employment.

e.g Currently there are 50 lakh unemployed youth in the country (just for the number). Out of them, atleast 500 start their own business employing about 5000 ppl (acc to their intellectual capability)... that means half the country's prb is solved... aint it? Then think of the amount of wealth generation and rising std of the people.

So definitely, entrepreneurship is the way to go :tea:

[amardeep.rishi]

Enterpreneurship is wat is required...the common phrase used by almost all management graduates"company ko bahut paisa kama ke de dia...ab khud kamayenge"
Thats wat a good b school go for u...they imbibe these qualities in u to lead from the front....they give u knowledge and confidence to people to think beyond horizon.I think enterpreneurship is wat b schools r concentrating on.

[ch21599]

Good Bschools can create enterprenurs and the eye eye pea yum's can stick to producing managers by the ton ... not everyone can be an enterprenur , i for one think its not possible to create enturprenurship , u can only nurture it ... ofcourse a lot of bschools are intent on killing it by solid faltoo course content and too much emphasis on procedures and routines ....

[anu shukla]

i'm a little confused here... what exactly are ur views? u have gone for both :SugarwareZ-064::

i just presented the leads fr both ways ...fr others to take a stand!! for me , am in favor of managership although a lil bit of enterpneurship skills learning will be like icing on the cake!!!


Correction my lady! Ambani started as a poor man!! He worked abroad for an oil company and amassed a little money and started out with his on venture later on... pretty much like NR murthy.:

i truly honour you fr the same...but wat i meant by taking ambani example is that these people didn't care abt the time spent..they were easy going & had an inclination fr starting a business!!


e.g Currently there are 50 lakh unemployed youth in the country (just for the number). Out of them, atleast 500 start their own business employing about 5000 ppl (acc to their intellectual capability)... that means half the country's prb is solved... aint it? Then think of the amount of wealth generation and rising std of the people.:
do u really think it is that much easy???a lot of people start off with various business but i said b'fore they lack in sm skills...so finally have to bear losses!!

lookingf frwrd to ur take on the same!!!

[vishal_1986]

an entreprenuer has far more superior brain n creative mind..intellectual thn a manager...so B school focus must b on entreprenuers..coz an entreprenuers is newayz a gr8 manager himself.... nt a big write up..but in simple words..this wht i feel..

[gaurav200x]

do u really think it is that much easy???a lot of people start off with various business but i said b'fore they lack in sm skills...so finally have to bear losses!!


easy?? hmm... not what i was expecting, dear.. See, define easy... or tell me one entrepreneur who has made it to the hilt "easily"... none is the answer. If things would have been that easy, tab to baat hi kya thi.

The point is that that India today needs to self employment. True managerial posts do offer u huge pay checks, but is that going to bring glory for ur country? serving a foreign master?

Think of oberoi, murthy or even the big shots like Birla... They struggled and struggled and strgguled, before even getting up there....

So, its not about "easy".... but all about employment.

Its not about hat comes off easily, but what needs to be done virtuously

[kartik]

See, define easy... or tell me one entrepreneur who has made it to the hilt "easily"
ME ME MEE... lol jsk kidding.. still a long way to reach the hilt :)

But i must say... you cannot teach entrepreneurship.. its all inbuilt...

Basically successful entrepreneurs are those who are introverts.. or who dont like to play by the rules..

B schools give know-how .. if one is a entrepreneur .. its because of his own zeal and efforts .

[anu shukla]

i too agree with kartik!!!!!
today mostly ( am nt saying all) people opt for being manager rather than opening their own business.reasons to list a few:

1. job security!!( business laways has ups & downs)
2. no need fr sm "extra "skills( anybody can become a manager!!)
3. fit in the bil situation( they can wrk anywhere & everywhere)
4.9-6 job!!(nt exactly but haan really dn't have to go sleepless nights over work11)
5.fat pay package( no need to explain!!)
6.easy to switch over!!( can shuffle between various kinds of job!!)
these are just few of them!!!
so, the pt is if mostly junta seems to go this way (as seen with the trend, nt many opt fr becoming enterpreneurs)
y shud we change the couse of study just fr sake of few handful people having sm inborn instinct!!!

so, the objective shud remain as producing managers (which we still need in large no..!!!) although a few seminars on enterpreneurship will be an add -on!!!

[pratik_mehta7]

a question for all you guys:
given a New Life, what would want to live with: 1)heart
2) Brain.

same goes with this topic, managers are the Brain Powers, whereas ent. function on instincts.
hence it an essence of a B-school, to manage and innovate new ways to make ent. and Man.

[anu shukla]

hi guys!
just want to say one thing...was going thru the thread & say a blunder...due to my awful habit of wrong typing i have written enterpreneur( evn in the heading) instead of "Entrepreneur "..error is seriously regretted...
i will make sure that this shud nt happen again!( atleast while giving the caption!!)
thanx

[gaurav200x]

I hate to disagree with u, but let me post my views with utmost humility.


today mostly ( am nt saying all) people opt for being manager rather than opening their own business.reasons to list a few:

1. job security!!( business laways has ups & downs)

Who says? If today's hire-n-fire world, who has job security. Only the competent survives here. Atleast when u are an entrepreneur, u have the satisfaction, that u being the boss, no one can kick u out, although without competence, u can't do anything there.


2. no need fr sm "extra "skills( anybody can become a manager!!)

Really? Who says? Being a manager, doesnt mean doing a babu's or a clerk's job. U need to manage a whole team, an entire product, a complete design. U need to work with other people and u need special skills for that. So is the case for an entrepreneur. So, ur no special skills wala argument, doesnt hold good.

3. fit in the bil situation( they can wrk anywhere & everywhere)

Well... here i would like to say that if the guy is fit for that job and has a conducive environment, he can work. True, some of it is self-made, however, the fitting doesnt happen everywhere. Besides even an entrepreneur has to wholesome, isnt it. He has to ensure he is able to work the best despite any condition.


4.9-6 job!!(nt exactly but haan really dn't have to go sleepless nights over work11)

Trust me... meeting deadlines, managing the project isnt an easy task. True not that much pressure as an entrepreneur, but i dont think working hours can be given a valid agrument status.


5.fat pay package( no need to explain!!)

Again? Is it a valid arguement? How can u say managers are better here? i would like to be an entrepreneur so that i can earn much more than by doing service.


6.easy to switch over!!( can shuffle between various kinds of job!!)

Yeah! maybe one point that might hold validity.. however, there is no conrete point as such which would jstify ur claim.


so, the pt is if mostly junta seems to go this way (as seen with the trend, nt many opt fr becoming enterpreneurs)
y shud we change the couse of study just fr sake of few handful people having sm inborn instinct!!!

i'm sorry, but it is ur view. Do u know that the IIM guys have actually left the bulky pay packages' jobs to start with their own venture. Why is it so? Think....

They want to be the master of their own fate and slave to none!!!

They want to mould the fate of the country with their own hands, rather than using their talents for the benefit of someone else. As i said earlier, entrepreneurship alone can remove the mjor emplyment problem of the country. What we need is more and more budding entrepreneurs!!

so, the objective shud remain as producing managers (which we still need in large no..!!!) although a few seminars on enterpreneurship will be an add -on!!!

Hence, i would say that the objective should rather be on entrepreneurship!!

[themaharana]

a question for all you guys:
given a New Life, what would want to live with: 1)heart
2) Brain.

same goes with this topic, managers are the Brain Powers, whereas ent. function on instincts.
hence it an essence of a B-school, to manage and innovate new ways to make ent. and Man.
good post pratik

[anu shukla]

I hate to disagree with u, but let me post my views with utmost humility.


.......
Hence, i would say that the objective should rather be on entrepreneurship!!

hi there
@gaurav:
HEY TAHTS A NICE QUOTE"I HATE TO DISAGREE..."(HAHAHA!NTHING OFFENDING)back to the pt!!!

thnx dost for telling u ur views on the same...but i think u still are not getting my point,that am trying to convey...
fr iims i do agree there is a developing trend fr studentsto kick the hefty pay chk & go fr entrepreneur BUT its quite visible that this happens on with 2-3 PER SAY 40 STUDENTS...SO STILL A LARGE NUMBER GOES FR BEING MANAGER...ALSO NO SUCH VISIBLE TREND IS SHOWN AMONG MANAGERS OF OTHER INSTITUTES!!!
WAT AM TRYING TO SAY IS THAT GVN THE STATISTICS, THEY SHOULD NOT CHANGE THE CURRICULUM ......A LIL BIT OF KNOWLEDGE CAN BE AN ADD ON FR THOSE WHO WANT TO BECOME ENTREPRENEUR!!

EVN BUSSINESSMEN DO AGREE TAHT "NOT EVERYONE POSSESS THE ENTREPRENEUR SKILLS"
ALSO THEMANAGERS ARE ALWAYS CALLED AS ONE "FIT IN THE BILL TYPES"JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE GIVEN SUCH KNOWLEDGE IN THEIR MBA THAT THEY CAN WRK ALMOST EVERYWHERE...THEY ARE MORE ADAPTABLE TO EXISTING ENVIRONMENT..
fr being atiring job...all i can say is taht if we start counting such stuff as tiring then i think the call centre exec wrks the hardest!!isn't it?
wat am trying to say is noo such hullabu abt wrking sleepless nights(although once in a while is justified gvn their nature of wrk) fr managers..

Again? Is it a valid arguement? How can u say managers are better here? i would like to be an entrepreneur so that i can earn much more than by doing service

*(i wISH that if u think this way u should become a gr888 entrepreneur witha big empire!then i will be able to say that there was atime whn we fought abt the same thing!!!hahahah!!!!best wishes from my side)

BUT AGAIN THE THING IS THIS IS UR PERSONAL THOUGHT!!!!I WUD REQST U TO SHOW ME VALID FACTS & DATA IF U HAVE COME ACROSS TO PROVE THAT THE CURRICULUM SHOULD BE CHANGED AIMING AT BECOMING ENTREPRENEURS!!

thnx fr giving a tough fight...but at the end things always works on facts & figures !!!

@pratik: must saya very valid post..seems that u have become half of a manager.... u have given a very diplomatic answer..which i think u can
plss elaborate a lil more( atleast fr me) to come to a conclusion !!!!

[gaurav200x]

Well very sweet post from u... and i really like those ppl, jo ladte hain, magar pyar se... ;) :big_grin:


fr iims i do agree there is a developing trend fr studentsto kick the hefty pay chk & go fr entrepreneur BUT its quite visible that this happens on with 2-3 PER SAY 40 STUDENTS...SO STILL A LARGE NUMBER GOES FR BEING MANAGER...ALSO NO SUCH VISIBLE TREND IS SHOWN AMONG MANAGERS OF OTHER INSTITUTES!!!
WAT AM TRYING TO SAY IS THAT GVN THE STATISTICS, THEY SHOULD NOT CHANGE THE CURRICULUM ......A LIL BIT OF KNOWLEDGE CAN BE AN ADD ON FR THOSE WHO WANT TO BECOME ENTREPRENEUR!!

Well Anu, Lemme tell u... entrepreneurship is all about passion... It is the secret love which u have in ur body, ur mind, which u want to explore. The guys who choose this stream have read the same books... they're made of the same flesh and blood... yet they choose it differently. Why? Its all about passion. However, we (the b-schools) need to make sure... that they encourage such pppl... why?? bcoz of the reasons i told earlier. When u talk of the trend, i think it is changing. It is not about IIMs or a lower grade b-school... its all about self and how much motivated can u get from ur college and it is this motivation, which the b-school cadres need to strike upon!!

EVN BUSSINESSMEN DO AGREE TAHT "NOT EVERYONE POSSESS THE ENTREPRENEUR SKILLS"
ALSO THEMANAGERS ARE ALWAYS CALLED AS ONE "FIT IN THE BILL TYPES"JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE GIVEN SUCH KNOWLEDGE IN THEIR MBA THAT THEY CAN WRK ALMOST EVERYWHERE...THEY ARE MORE ADAPTABLE TO EXISTING ENVIRONMENT..
fr being atiring job...all i can say is taht if we start counting such stuff as tiring then i think the call centre exec wrks the hardest!!isn't it?
wat am trying to say is noo such hullabu abt wrking sleepless nights(although once in a while is justified gvn their nature of wrk) fr managers..

About the skills and the working hours... i would repeat what i said. Its all about the passion. If u want to achieve something great, u have to work for it. If u want a better project, u need to burn ur midnight oil. Same goes with businessmen...

Regd, skills... well adaptibility is the mark of a good business man... The one who cant , is left out... So no issues/difference among the 2 here!!



*(i wISH that if u think this way u should become a gr888 entrepreneur witha big empire!then i will be able to say that there was atime whn we fought abt the same thing!!!hahahah!!!!best wishes from my side)


So sweet!!!!! thanks a lot, dearie!!
p.s. i love fighting!! :pound:

BUT AGAIN THE THING IS THIS IS UR PERSONAL THOUGHT!!!!I WUD REQST U TO SHOW ME VALID FACTS & DATA IF U HAVE COME ACROSS TO PROVE THAT THE CURRICULUM SHOULD BE CHANGED AIMING AT BECOMING ENTREPRENEURS!!

thnx fr giving a tough fight...but at the end things always works on facts & figures !!!


Well what kinda facts do u want... facts are also based on logic,aint it.. When i talk of the employment.. when i talk of the skill level.. its all logically based. Still, u can see urself... the growing trend... the attitude of the graduates... more inclined towards being an entrepreneur...

What i would say is that it comes from ur inner self. You know that entrepreneurship is the answer to ur country's employment problem. You know, that being an entrepreneur, u can earn much more, so why wouldnt u go for it. Likewise, the focus would also change. The B-schools would also promote entrepreneurship.... and hence my thoughts!!

[anu shukla]

Well very sweet post from u... and i really like those ppl, jo ladte hain, magar pyar se... ;) :big_grin:...



what i would say is that it comes from ur inner self. You know that entrepreneurship is the answer to ur country's employment problem. You know, that being an entrepreneur, u can earn much more, so why wouldnt u go for it. Likewise, the focus would also change. The B-schools would also promote entrepreneurship.... and hence my thoughts!!


hey gaurav
boss tum phass gayei :big_grin: , u urself have admitted taht it comes from ur inner self!!! sooo nt everybody has that willingness( to be frank)
soo y we make the objective of a b- school to produce entrepreneur!!!

i agree with you fully that its one of the idealistic soln to unemployment prob, but blv me nt many will gain from it!!!
as far as facts& figs are concerned, logic do play a imp role BUT at the end of the day bigger changes ( like changing the course struucture) are always made by studying the common trend!!!

wat u say?:tea:

[gaurav200x]

hey gaurav
boss tum phass gayei :big_grin: , u urself have admitted taht it comes from ur inner self!!! sooo nt everybody has that willingness( to be frank)
soo y we make the objective of a b- school to produce entrepreneur!!!

i agree with you fully that its one of the idealistic soln to unemployment prob, but blv me nt many will gain from it!!!
as far as facts& figs are concerned, logic do play a imp role BUT at the end of the day bigger changes ( like changing the course struucture) are always made by studying the common trend!!!
Well... sorry, for the delayed response.... Now lets see...

The point here is not willingness... but about bringing out that hidden desires. how many of us willing study... exams aate hain to padhte hain :big_grin:

Now, it depends on person-2-person. Some ppl have these hidden desires just waiting to be explored. So, if the B-school gives an emphasis on it, isnt it possible, that u would get more no. of entrepreneurs who would be inspired and would want to do something gr8 for their country.

Why does the defence advertise? bcoz it wants to show the people, who do not know about the glories of a defence job. It doesn't compel...only stresses!! Like-wise, the B-school should not compel, only stress (hope, this sentence clears any confusion, if it still persists)


but blv me nt many will gain from it

and why?? who are these gainers that we talking about?Is it the country? Is it some people or is it the mass?

[Great_II]

See an enterpreneur can not be created by Training only his "managerial Skills" are enhanced and/or Added.
So it remains an enterpreneur too is a Manager.
A B.School has to nurture Management Talent for an MBA and its upto the Candidates Choice or Talent to be an Enterpreneur.Its not that B.schools take in a almost risk savvy folks and make them into risk averse Suited Fella's with cool Laptops.
There's nothing in curriculum which can make you an enterpreneur.
As for selection of Enterpreneur or normal Job wallah MBA.A good Junta "lies" or "chickens" out of their "Entrepreneur" Dreams.

[anu shukla]

Well... sorry, for the delayed response.... Now lets see...

.......and why?? who are these gainers that we talking about?Is it the country? Is it some people or is it the mass?

hi gaurav
dost all i want to say is taht if u go thru the former converse , i think smhwre we are regressing from the topic as" its nt about which is more imp the entrepreneurship or manager..but the fact that what should bschool studies should aim at ?" for the generalised convention( followed till now!) these curriculum changes can't be done just by thinking of a bunch of innovvative minds...
( as great-II also said,it can't be created......)
decisions have to be taken in general interest...so acc to me the answer lies smwhere between the two
1.they just continue with the current studies..as they have a subject as
"bussiness ethics" in their curriculum vitae..which is already suffice fr those ignited minds..
2.we can start of with say 1-2 new inst that can act as sharpels fr the crystals( managers) to turn them into diamonds( entrepreneurs)


but as i say "there is no need to change the whole curriculum just fr the sake of a new idea!!!!
gaurav ur comments plss...hahah!!!
take care
anu

[gaurav200x]

Any new comments/ideas can be given provided a change of mind is there and new ideas could be thought of with a rational mentality. You aren't thinking of the nation as a whole.

Anyway, i think somewhere we have shifted from the point of conversation. So, there is no point in repeating things. I still stand on my views... that the B-schools should atleast stress more on entrepreneurship.

p.s. i do appreciate/respect ur viewpoints, nonetheless!

[deepakraam]

"Today's Manager is tomorrow's enterpreneur"

So I feel a B-school should create a person who thinks like an entreprenuer(having a vision and mission) and acts like a manager(to manage his people to make his vision a true one).

[bips]

a b school shld give its students the tools to choose what they want to become

[RC1327]

i think b schools should aim for entrepreneurs because tehy are better at managing than general managers

[anu shukla]

hey there...

gud to see smone flapping thru old pages again...
coming to the topic, why you think that enterpreneurs are better than managers??may i know?

[chirag7979]

entrepreneurs are risk taker and decision makers so what i think first they should be able to manage things and become manager and slowly develop the entrepreneurial skills and then ...

hence first manager and then Entrepreneur ...

[pallavit]

until and unless u become a gud manager u cnt become a entrpnr its vry essential 2 hve gud managerial skils 2 be a succesful entrpnr

[pallavit]

it shud be managers as until n unless u r nt thrwn in deep waters u dnt learn 2 swim so the emphasis should be on managers as enterprenurs has to also manage

[preetsethi123]

I think so that the objective of the b-schools shud be entreprenuers because it is wat is needed.....wat i wanna say is dat u cant be working for someone else for ur whole life,at some point of time one will think that he shud now have some safe source of income and one way to have this is having one own business so for this u need have knowledge......one more i wud like 2 mention here is this that if a person is learning about entreprenuership then he also is learning about management at the sametime....

[mirchi.foreever]

I think so that the objective of the b-schools shud be entreprenuers because it is wat is needed.....wat i wanna say is dat u cant be working for someone else for ur whole life,at some point of time one will think that he shud now have some safe source of income and one way to have this is having one own business so for this u need have knowledge......one more i wud like 2 mention here is this that if a person is learning about entreprenuership then he also is learning about management at the sametime....

WHat about the Experience thing.............I guess you only get it by job .............Job can give you experience.........so that you can use in Entreprenuership:SugarwareZ-229:

[bibybasu]

Entrepreneurship is a very interesting avenue , but without being a good manager one cannot be an entrepreneur

[anu shukla]

hey
i again want to reemphasize the fact that not all of us are born with enterprenerial qualities, are not equally good at risk taking... in companies there is only 10% senior management ( leaders) and rest are managers which are required for implementation...
we can say that enterpreneurship skills shows you the direction butits only the management skills that takes you there..
so the emphasis should be on deveoping good mangership qualities as once they are developed those 1% will themselves start their ventures...

[beone]

managers should be entrepreneurs :) that should be better...

[ganguly111]

an entrepreneur himself ia a manager...entrepreneurship needs to b taught effectively..

[prachii]

I think enterpenuers r today's need.
everyone feel happy when they receive their first salary but imagine the hapiness that an enterpenuer feel when he pays d first salary to his employees.

[bharatr05]

the schools should concentrate on producing managers and entrpreneurs as by letting them decide but also provide the best cirruculum.

[squareleg]

Thatz what Co-existence is all about.

The One cannot do without the other, together BOTH will prosper.
Think if every1 bcoms an Entrepreneur, how will an Organisation function. Higher Egos n Conflicts wud arise. As no one like to Work for another fellow.

Same if every1 is a Manager, whom to manage. And who'll pay for those fat pay packets. So everybody has his own space to live n work.

In his recent AGM Mukesh Ambani said "The Country is facing serious talent crunch" that tells the story.

So I like what the IIM fellow has put forward n never thought if som1 at IIMs feel this way "today the experience at class room is far apart from ground realities & the education is more of academia"

[priyapillai.85]

i feel b-schools should try churnin out entrepreneurs than managers... a manager is enforced to work within d predecided structures of the company...so d learnin anyways happen anytime u join a company or wen switchin companies...

buddin entrprnrs on othr hand needs 2 b givn a feel abt wt risk takin means n othr difficulties faced by thm

[mailsiddhartha08]

Dear Friends ,

Managers or entrepreneurs - what should be the objective of B-Schools???

It has to be in entrepreneurship form.

As manager knows the routine -work, handles his/her job efficiently.
Manager manages the work in his best possible way ,while the entrepreneur looks for the best optimal solution in SMART way( simple,Measurable,Achievable, Realistic and Time-bound).Manager may or may not have his extreme desires,while the entrepreneurship culminates the peak desires,to be sustainable,profitable ,rewarding growth,contributing both to self and society.

Entrepreneurship imbibes the philosophy of leadership,which makes him more practicable and reachable to the masses. Hears the VOC and converges them to tap the untapped resources,markets,zeal ,potential etc.

Hence it is a holistic approach to circumspect the forthcoming business scenarios , and to create a niche in that segment. It not only entices us to barge from top to bottom of the pyramid ,but also throws us to think beyond the boundaries.

[prabhu_niftbang]

ENTERPRENEURS...! If a B-school is able to produce an enterpreneur it actualy starts a cycle of growth in itself. He / she trys to find a way to establish their industry, passes on their knowledge & experiance to NoN B-school grads helping them grow with them. This builds the over all society like an eco system. The non B-school grad gets an role model from the entreprenuer and gets into a B-school to be an entreprenuer.

[pahuja.chirag]

objective of Bschool should be to prepare good managers. if one is a good manager, he is naturally a good entrepreneur

[vickykumar]

b school should look for producing enterpreneurs and provide quality education