OBC reservations is it justified??

[Shrinjoy]

Hey friends,
This is one of the most serious issue we are facing at this point of time..so i thought of starting this thread in the BIG FIGHT...

So are OBC reservations justified??
In my point of view they arent...right from my 10th std and i am sure there r more ppl who will agree wid me tht we r facing competition not only wid the bright students but also frm the students who score less than us still they r in level or rather above our level to secure admissions in good colleges..it happend in 10th thn our CCEE wherein OBC SC ppl scoring one mark also was given admissions to college like HR, Jai Hind n wut we need to do is slog our days n nights to secure admission in such colleges...I hoped aftr my graduation i wouldnt b facing such competition but BAM!! came the order of the Central government for the reservation n BAM!! we r in a same situation,a catch 22 situation wherein 27% of the seats will now b reserved for the OBCs in almost all the B-Schools including the IIM...soo now 50% is reserved for the OBCs SCs NTs n the remaining 50% for us...I mean wtf!! is happening to our system is this justified??arent the brightest of the Indian minds shud b leading India or students wid low caliber,abilities,traits,leadership qualities will lead India in the comin future...
Frm 50 yrs now this situation is prevelent in our country...reservations to SCs OBCs r not makin a difference in the scenario..they r still backward n ignorent abt the country's development..rather than the politicians bitching abt each other in the parliament..they need to focus on their developments rather than comin out wid shit bills like these...Our constitution states tht we r a secular country...but we dont c any secularism..Reservations n quotas prove these tht we r now alien to our LAND..politicians gain the maximum from this as they r gettin their votes based on such sucky bills...wut abt our future,our well-being, aint the government worried abt us...nearly 2 LAKH aspirents will give CAT this yr n i guess roughly 1.5 LAKH will fight for the 50% of the seats..doesnt the government think abt it...aint a debate necessary wid the media wid the general public???
We cant revolt against the tyrranic rule coz hell noone is listening....those ****ers can debate for 25 yrs fr the women reservation in the parliament n legislative assembly coz their seats r in danger...but they r not willing to fight fr our seats,our rights...Is this DEMOCRACY??? Do we cast our votes to face this from our elected government...
We dont have any options left..we need to flee frm this country wherein the leaders of our own country backstabs us fr casting our valuable votes...all the political parties r responsible fr it...plzz guys hope u lend us support to fight fr our fundamental rights...

[gaurav200x]

Well shrinjoy, i respect ur sentiments and i can see that u r very angry with the bill.... I too feel the same.

I think quota system actually mar the word 'competition' and is like a hard slap on the face. The politicians do this mainly their vote banks and hence it is the junta's responsibility to voice their opinion against such hypocriticism.

Making reservations in b-schools and then talking of the best brains in the country in complete hogwash. Secondly, reservation for the faculty is also meaningless because if u don't have that kind of expertise in teaching, then forget about producing world-class managers. Hence such bills are pure crap

i agree that there are sections of the society that have been left out and hence they need support and for that many aids can be given like reduction in fees, free books, free coaching etc so that they have the same facilities as their well-off counterparts, but making reservations and saying that they would have to be inducted whether they have the aptitude for it or not, is beyond reason.

[enigma]

This is one of the best blogs I've come across with regards to the reservation issue...

Here it is...

At the outset, let me state this - by birth (and to a great extent by upbringing) I am a Brahmin. I was born with the privilege of being born into a family with considerable socio-intellectual capital. So it would be easy to read anything that I write on the OBC reservations issue, as something that comes without the insight of belonging to a certain community.

However, let's say we put aside this issue of reservations for OBCs and the already existing quota for SC / STs. Suppose I pick up the issue reservations in higher education for women. As a woman and a practicing feminist - who is very passionate about getting women into the best of institutes and opening up more opportunities for them - I should support reservations for them right?

Wrong. Some reasons why.

1. The Usual Suspect: Given stereotyping and traditional barriers, if I am a woman in a particular setting, it is often suspected that I got there through favours. This favour by the government is no less. Regardless of what merit I may possess, the suspect factor remains that I got there through other means. Even if it is a legitimate way to enter - it is sends signals about my merit. Whatever social capital I may appear to gain, it is overshadowed by the constant doubt over my merit. It also makes ALL women appear suspect. Irrespective of how they got there. Merit or Reservation (partial merit?).

2. The Usual Beneficiary: Higher Education in India is not the preserve of those with money. Money is usually not a barrier. Suppose I was 16 and studying for the JEE. What I really need is good quality coaching. God knows that the CBSE and State Board seem inadequate. I would really appreciate if interest groups pushed for bridge classes to overcome the entry barrier, instead of institutionalizing mechanism that help override the entry point. I would already have to some of the economic capital if I have been able to study till the 12th grade. If loans are available at extremely low interest rates, and payable over long periods of time - I have a feeling a woman would benefit far more than her being plonked into an institute where she's unable to cope with the subject matter. Moreover, it's likely that a woman like me who comes from a privileged background who will end up using this quota.

3. The Gap: If Education at the same institute is such an equalizer, why have reservations at the Under Graduate level? If all these kids have cleared their Class 12 examinations and are at the same educational level - why the need to lower the cut-off for one section? Even more shocking - why would the women need reservations at the Post Graduate level? Wouldn't three to four years of the same education, additional bridge courses etc. have pushed the men and women to a level playing field based on merit?

4. Universalizing Primary Education: Education. Primary Education. The government makes feeble attempts at universalizing primary education and FAILS. It's been failing consistently since 1947. It's the worst report card a country can produce - that most of the country still can't read it. The issue with primary education is that it is so centralized, that it's difficult to hold an absentee or inefficient teacher responsible. The teacher in a school is simply not answerable to the community.

Suppose a teacher discriminates against girls in a government school - the parents have no choice! Now the government either needs to clear up its act and decentralize schooling and education, or it needs to give more impetus to private schools. Every state perhaps cannot do a Himachal Pradesh, or a Kerala and maybe condemned to a cycle of inefficiency that means poor education, high drop out rates with far more heavy consequences for historically weaker sections like women. (hint!)

If you tell me that private schools are expensive - think again. The market forces are not allowed to operate. If enough parents feel that the teacher discriminates against girls in a private school - chances are that another private player will recognize the gap - and start a school that is more gender sensitive. I understand that this school, in an ideal situation need not be gender-blind. The school will need to reach out to parents to convince them to continue in the school. (Which school wouldn't want fees the next year?) The school has further reasons to push parents to send their girls to college. Because earning women make a better case for the school to urge all parents to send their girls to school. If the fees do not appear to go down despite schools competing for children, well, in that case - let their be an open system where you apply to the government for scholarships. The government employees god-knows-how-many community workers, block resource centre workers etc in any case. Put them to some use! Either case, the government technically is supposed to monitor the progress of each child under the ICDS (Integrated Child Development Scheme) - let health workers report on a regular basis about who they can afford education.

A girl will never be able to well in an IIT or in DU, unless her fundamental knowledge is clear. That knowledge is built over the many years through primary and secondary education. The government must then identify situation where market forces do not see adequate incentives and provide the incentives. The private schooling sector at the primary level can be and is regulated. The schools can still be answerable to government institutions that set standards for examination and progress-reporting.

5. Services: The government charges for a million services for women. Make sure the women actually access these services. If women charge these services (which they indirectly pay for) they resolve many of the issues that solutions like reservation attempt to address.

6. Time Bound: At what point will we establish that women and men are capable of generating similar socio-economic capital? Or that, irrespective of that capital - they will be able to leverage opportunities? When do we make the transition from "positive discrimination" to "positive action"? How do you arrive at that figure? How will you ever calculate? How will you measure when the impact of patriarchy has weakened enough for women to not need the quota?

7. Stop Gap: Working on systemic inefficiencies is far more difficult. But any other solution is a stop gap arrangement. It will never resolve the problems of the next generation. The government is distracting you from far greater issues affecting women. Property rights, political, civil, economic and rights over the person to start with. Oh, and how about opening more colleges to begin with. Why do so many people have to compete for such a small number of seats even at the undergraduate level?

8. Rights: Yes. It's against the rights of a man to be discriminated against because of the fact that he is a man. It's precisely the way women have been discriminated against always. I have no wish to perpetuate the system that is built on letting the divide be intact. A system need not be gender blind to be gender sensitive. The needs are different but need not be satisfied at the cost of the rights of the other. While patriarchy has traditionally favoured men, reservation is essentially a patriarchal solution. Oppressing is not the way out of oppression. Rights are to protect the vulnerable not to pander to them.

9. It's insulting: Don't favour me because I am a woman. Favour me because I am smarter, more intelligent and more capable. If I am as smart as the man. Treat me as an equal. Give me the same opportunity. Give me a loan to set up my business, don't bloody walk into my shop and tell me that you are going to run it for me because I can't do it for myself.

[its_kul]

u just keep talking and political ppl will do what they want.

[finddeven]

As per government of india 80% of population of india belongs to OBC, so to resolve the issue of reservation in my opinion, i would rather plead to Prime Minister of india to increase the reservation quota to 100% for OBC at the Same time revise the list for OBC category list by putting the remaining 20% of open category into OBC category so their problem is also solved and Open category problem is also solved no Need fight then.